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08/27/2004 Entry: "Polyamory"
Recently, a friend of mine posted in his private "friends only" blog about how he got burned due to a one-two punch of an open relationship that changed rules without his knowledge, and gossipy people who stick their nose into places they really shouldn't. I don't pass judgment on his open relationship, so I am as upset as he is about how some people thought they were being "responsible" by telling his spouse that my friend was having an affair without asking him first. I guess that's one of the hazards to having a "secret open relationship," but in my mind, the problem is much deeper. This isn't a slam on my friend, or a judgment call, but in my experience, I have yet to see an "open relationship" work out in long term. I have known many people who have some kind of agreement that they and/or their spouse can go cavorting around in a physical manner, boinking others with free abandon. I hear debates about whether a man can truly be monogamous in his heart, and while I think I am, I realize those that don't will just think I am in denial or something. Now, don't get me wrong, I have no argument with the idea, as long as it is between two or more consenting adults. The problem always seems to be it was really only one "consenting" adult and one "resenting" adult all along, usually sucking some innocent bystanders in a collapsing underground lava tube of boiling psychodrama and jealousy ("You said she was okay with it!!!"). I personally don't know of one open relationship, and I have known of many in fandom, that worked out. Yes, I have seen some last for years, but in the end, one leaves the other, and often in some horrible collapse where the true feelings finally come out. In Islam, there are sects that allow for multiple marriages, but the caveat there is that what you get one wife, you have to get all of them. So if you get wife #1 a BMW, you have to give wives 2 - 7 the same BMW. Thus, most polygamy is a status symbol of being rich. In some cultures, and I hear the French quoted a lot in this, there is the wife and the mistress, where the wife is the security blanket/mother figure, and the mistress is the fun concubine (not meant in a derogatory term). It's just accepted, but since I don't personally know any French people that also have a mistress, I can only speculate resentment, which would be unfair of me, so I am leaving that sub-topic alone. I have several personal theories why I think open relationships fail. It's usually the guy who wants it, the girl will "put up with it to keep him." This is my number one prevailing theory. I have seen all kinds of reasoning, from "he can't help it, it's genetically abnormal testosterone levels" to trying to realize a "spiritual bond" of some kind (common in some Pagan open relationships). I hate to say this, but I think that the girls who buy into this are just delaying the inevitable: their man can't commit to one person. They allow this sort of thing because they believe they won't ever find a decent man, and they better put up and shut up with what they have, because even though he doesn't commit like most others, he's the best you can ever get because deep down you fear you're not desirable and can't find a good man. Bullshit. I have known several Pagan relationships that have reached an uneasy truce with "my man must have sex with a younger woman because [fill in Pan-based reasoning here]," but it always ends when the man only sleeps with said younger woman. Now, if it's a guy letting his girl roam around, it's almost the same thing, but they tend to lose the girl much, much faster than a girl loses a guy. There's another lesson in there, I know it. It's just FANDOM open relationships that don't work. Maybe, instead of "fandom allows open marriages," the ratio is the same in non-fandom, and it's just the fact that fandom relationships are wonky to begin with, polyamory or not. The only weakness to this theory is that I know many monogamous fandom relationships that are well into their second decade, with no signs of breaking up. It's only "public open relationships" that don't work out. Maybe there is a slew of secret polyamorous relationships out there among friends I think are monogamous, but they don't make a big deal about it, or keep it secret, because it's no one's business but theirs. Being monogamous, I just "wouldn't understand." I have been accused of this, but then, inevitably, I am right about how it will end for them. I don't like being right, because I just hate seeing people get hurt. Maybe I don't understand how a deep love can be shared, and I don't think it's "just like loving multiple kids," because you don't have sex with your kids. Physical love and parental love are two very different things, even if they share the same word. Bad luck. Maybe, out of the dozen or so relationships I have seen, I just got a lot of bad coincidences. Maybe it's a combination of these. Or something I haven't thought of. Then there's also the bisexual angle, which seems to have the same rate of failure, but then it's a loop they can't seem to get out of, sometimes with the added spin of "watching someone else make out with my spouse as I make out with both of them is a massive turn on." I debate whether we are monogamous creatures, but I know I am. I have never even considered having sex with another woman, nor can I imagine being tempted. I know many of my friends are the same way, and maybe it is all cultural and in our head, but when I think of the logistics of having a mistress, a second wife, or whatever... I get a headache and thank God I am married to Christine. I don't judge those who want to have an open relationship, but I kind of cringe in the same way like when someone tells me they have "a hot new business opportunity with a brand-name distribution system," or that they have found a new religion that requires a lot of money to keep being a member. "This is going to end badly," I think. A majority of "Open Relationships" never start out that way, and it always seems to be a signpost pointing to the first landmarks of a breakup. Boy meets girl. Boy falls in love with girl. Relationship stagnates. Boy brings in second girl. Things seem fine for a while, then boy starts being with second girl too much. First girl finally breaks down and cries. Relationship ends, usually with only one of them claiming it was a "mutual decision." Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see one work out. I'd like to see 3 or more people, all having sex, living under the same roof, raising several children, sharing incomes, and giving equal loving time to one another until death parts them. I WANT people to be happy. But I haven't seen ONE polyamory situation end well, or even last more than 5 years. I have seen too many photos in polyamorous albums where often the trio is only shown two at a time. I have yet to see some Sears Portrait on top of someone's TV where they go, "This is my wife Lisa and our lover Betty." The only exception seems to be a recent one, where a death did part them, but even wife #1 said she had to work through her resentment before she finally made peace with "this is how it's going to be, I love him, and that's that." And I am sure somewhere, there are people who have no problems with an open relationship. I've just never seen one, that's all.
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The Peanut Gallery responds with: 6 comments
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Late returning to the party, per usual. Okay. I think I see your points. And yes, I was/am thinking that you were painting with a pretty broad brush. As for specific examples as to *why*, as someone who currently has a wife and girlfriend), it's communication, communication, communication. In your friend's case, the rules changed and he didn't know that. Why? Because someone didn't tell him that there was a change of mind/heart/whatever. If there's one resenting partner, and they're just playing along, it's bad, of course. They're burying their true feelings for the situation, and if that doesn't get out, damned if there's gonna be a good ending to this. The hope that your friend has (and by this point, it's probably all over/settled anyway) is exactly that. He has to find out where he and his significant others stand. I missed the "closeted" comment, but I can say that yes, quite a few of us are, because it's almost easier to explain an affair than it is to have people understand that yes, you do have an additional SO, and yes, your spouse is okay with it, and heck, may even be involved with them too! Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. That one didn't last because the person in question had to move away, but now that they're back, well, I'm seeing them again. Different relationship dynamic, but hey, whatever works. Finally, to address your comment of "If I saw 10/10 fandom relationships fail, I'd be a fool not to say that." I don't see it that way. Yes, being on the whackier fringes of the gamer/fandom spheres (mostly gafiated from both) means that I see strange relationships fall apart. Including some supposedly "poly" ones, but they lacked a certain maturity, heck, any maturity AT ALL. My experience says one thing, but logically, I KNOW my dataset is too limited, so I won't say that based on my experience, these sorts of things won't work out. Why? I'm no expert on these sorts of things, and I know it. If I have a good enough dataset, or know something inside and out, that's a different story. Point is, experience isn't everything, which is why we postulate. And that's what drives thinking. Hope this was a little bit clearer, but that's what I get for posting at 0230. Posted by Stormgren @ 09/03/2004 02:29 AM EST |
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> I'd have to say that your dataset is too limited. Which is why I posted this, I was kind of hoping for a counter-example. > I am aware of several poly/open relationships that have worked, I know it may not be my business, but can you give some examples and inferences on WHY they continue to work? Like "Friend A and Friend B have lived with Friend C for over 7 years, and you always see the three of them together. Their philosophy is..." > What you're speaking of is not really poly, in my estimation. It's an open What I *think* you are saying here is that my scope is too broad, too general. Like saying "all I have seen of Europe is the Eiffel Tower, The Tower of London, and the Leaning Tower of Pisa, so therefor, all Europe seems to have is towers." I realize this, which is part of why I posted: for rebuttal. I knew this post might stir controversy, but also provide some counter examples and perhaps change my views to one of a broader scope. AKA, a learning experience. The whole "Open Relationship" thing has bothered me for years, and I wanted to get some resolution on the whole thing. Do they ever work? All I can draw on is what I have seen, which I would ask nothing more of from anyone else. > I'm also irked by the "This isn't a slam on my friend, or a judgment Maybe I am using a different concept here. By judgement, I mean a phrase like, "What my friend does is BAD!" or "I think people who like cats are GREAT!" What I was doing was simply stating, "I don't understand, and in my experience, this won't end well." I don't think what he does is bad, I just wonder if this is going to end in some horrible breakup where he'll get hurt, and I don't want him to be hurt, so I am trying to find hope in a public forum so that maybe someone can prove me wrong. > Example: In my experience, fandom and gamer relationships in general But I would totally understand your POV if your experience only showed they failed. If you knew 10 fandom relationships, and all failed, you'd be a fool to claim otherwise. So I'd approach your view with counter-examples, and we'd both learn from each other. For a real example, we got married at a very early age (18 and 20), from a long distance relationship (West Virginia and DC), and before that (and even since then), almost all LDRs or young marriages end in separation, from what I have seen. Mine seems to be an aberration, but if someone says, "I am dating a guy over the Internet who is 20, and I just started college," I won't automatically pat them on the head and assume the worst. Although, I would give it only a 1 in 10 chance for lasting more than 4 years. > Point being, if you're going to make a point, don't try to That was not intentional. I plead ignorance over a desire to obscure facts. Posted by Punkie @ 08/29/2004 02:09 PM EST |
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Punkster, I'd have to say that your dataset is too limited. I am aware of several poly/open relationships that have worked, and continue to work. What you're speaking of is not really poly, in my estimation. It's an open relationship, but it can't be equal, because they're setting themselves up for failure for many reasons. I'm also irked by the "This isn't a slam on my friend, or a judgment call, but in my experience". That is a judgement call. Get over it. Example: In my experience, fandom and gamer relationships in general tend to fail. This is contrary to what you posted, but it's my experience. So, inferring from that, I'd expect you and Christine to be splitting up sometime soon. You haven't, and as far as I can tell, will still be together indefinetly. Point being, if you're going to make a point, don't try to obfuscate it. Posted by Stormgren @ 08/29/2004 01:35 PM EST |
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It's so not for me, but this blog has some interesting discussions on semi-secret open marriage, but not polyamory, from a woman's pov. Lots of gender bias inherent in relationships and how it's hard to shake. http://bitchphd.blogspot.com/ Posted by Bitch's friend @ 08/27/2004 12:04 PM EST |
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The history of multiple marriage partners seems to be more based on the females being like sisters and spreading the work of the home and kids while the male comes in and does his thing - then goes back out and hunts and guards the territory. That is not the same as the current thinking for polyamory. I tried an 'open relationship' - when he was out 'doing' I was kewl with it, when I went out 'doing' - he got bent. Hmmm - he'd tell me it was okay then whine to some of our friends - hmmm - and I kept trying to figure out why our friends were having heartburn over the situation and looking at me like I was the bad guy when he kept Reassuring ME that it was all kewl - hmmmmm. We did end up splitting up for reasons more related to finances, under employment and spending the rent money on other stuff, but the lack of communication that was evident from the other issue didn't really help. So, now I have some people who still think they have the whole story and that I'm a bitch for having whupped him - I have some not so fond memories of my first, only and last attempt at a modern polyamorous relationship - and I have a renewed commitment to allow temptation to be savored as a passing thought - kinda like - a Jag, nice car, would really be kewl to have one, now back to reality - get in the Chevy and go. I am not sure monogamy is what we were originally 'wired' for, neither am I sure that the modern version of polyamory is the way to go either - the conditions that led to the early models of family do not apply today. However, monogamy is much easier for me to keep clear in my head. I can look at someone else and go - okay, that's really nice looking, but am I really interested enough to give up a good marriage to a good man just because someone else is pretty - nope, that's asking too much. It's too much like the rest of our disposable world - spouse gets old, get a newer model - nah - a good spouse, partner, lover is worth more than that, mainly because they have made the choice to also keep their 'old' spouse, even with the dings and scraps. If someone out there really does have a good, working polyamory relationship going - more power to them, good on ya, but I'm gonna stick to the pedestrian version and hang on to my - in a few more days - 11 year marriage, 12 years if you count from the handfasting. It's still a good place for me to be and we work at keeping it there. Posted by Aynne @ 08/27/2004 09:49 AM EST |
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I think the concept is interesting, but it is hard to do in reality since on some levels we aren't wired for it. One school of thought goes that men are geared to spreading their seed far and wide as a means to propegate thier genetics. Women are the ones stuck having the kids, and are going to try to find a man who can stay and help 'protect' them so that her genetics make it to adulthood. The reltionships I have observed that come closest to working involve a level of communication and acceptance that many people just can't do. I have also noticed that in every three person group, its usualy two and one. I suppose it is possible for who falls where in that grouping can change often enough to keep people content, but again its hard work. There is also the point that the begining of the relationship is one of the most intense parts of it, and one of the most fun. Its a lot of fun to get to know someone intimately and forge this new bond. But if you are out doing that, what is happening with the mate you left at home? Can it be done in such a way that no one feels left out or slighted. Experience says its damn hard. I too like to think its possible. Its a wonderful thought. I like to think there is enough love and trust and understanding in people to make it work. But trust me, its a lot harder to do than a lot of people who try it want to think. Posted by Liz @ 08/27/2004 08:51 AM EST |
